By Kevin Downey Jr. Jan 04, 2022 3:03 PM ET – for pjmedia.com
My cmnt: The upshot of this very long interview is that Dr. McCullough (and many other leading medical authorities) were systematically shutout, cancelled, censored and threatened by the democrat-medical establishment so that Covid-19, easily treatable with HCQ and ivermectin, would cause mass panic and chaos and deaths allowing them to make billions from vaccines and attempt to destroy America and create a permanent hold on power by the democrat-media complex and democrat politicians.
Comedian Joe Rogan’s December interview with Dr. Peter A. McCullough is fascinating. It’s also almost three hours long. I can’t stress enough how important it is to watch it or listen to it on a long car ride, as I did.
If you prefer, here is the transcript. Keep in mind there is some over-talking in the transcript.
For those who can’t spare the three hours, here are some take-aways from what Dr. McCullough had to say. Keep in mind, this is one doctor’s opinion. (And again, the unedited transcript is sometimes more confusing than listening to the interview.)
Who is Dr. McCullough?
In his own words,
I’m Dr. Peter McCullough. I’m an internist and cardiologist. I’m also trained in epidemiology. I [have] an academic practice in Dallas, Texas, so I see patients about half the time. I saw patients yesterday, drove down today to see you here in the studio, and the rest of my time I spend as an author, an editor. I’m an editor of a major journal in cardiovascular medicine, the former editor of an international journal, the President of a major medical society right now, currently about five years into that position, and I frequently publish in my field. I study the interface between heart and kidney disease. I’m the most published person in my field in history. I have over 650 publications in the National Library of Medicine.Rogan: Now, when did things start to seem strange to you? In terms of the way the information was allowed to be distributed, in terms of the way people were treating patients and not just that, but the information on how to treat patients was distributed.
And I can tell you it wasn’t but a few weeks in April  on these task force calls. I was on routine health system calls once a week, and I was on one with the National Institutes of Health, and I asked a question. I said, when are we going to start to treat the problem? People are getting sick out there. They’re starting to be hospitalized. Some are dying. When are we going to start to treat patients? It’s too late for the hospital. It’s too late to treat people. It’s obvious they’re dying in the hospital. We must start early. And you could basically hear a pin drop on these calls. No one had an idea about treating COVID-19 at home.
Rogan: Was there no thought about it? Was there no discussion, or was it just not a point of focus? What was the problem there?
I think it was a grip of fear. Doctors for the first time in their lives felt like they could get the disease themselves if they actually saw and examined these patients. All the discussion was on personal protective equipment, hand sanitizer, negative air flow rooms. It was all about protecting the healthcare workers. There wasn’t any focus on sick patients.
McCullough on hydroxychloroquine:
They [Independent Doctors Organization] had early on sued the federal government to release the stockpile of hydroxychloroquine. U.S. had the right idea. As other countries, they stockpiled hydroxychloroquine. Then there was the problem of it wasn’t being released from the stockpile. And so, during my development work early in 2020, I got a call from the White House. Peter Navarro called me. So, listen, McCullough, can you help me get hydroxychloroquine released? Rick Bright and others in the FDA seemed to be colluding to block hydroxychloroquine coming out of the stockpile. In Marseille, France did. I was working with hydroxychloroquine and it was over the country. In France. They made a prescription and they started making it hard for him to use. And then simultaneously in Australia, they had taken hydroxychloroquine and they had put it up in Queensland as basically an untouchable drug. If a doctor attempted to use hydroxychloroquine to treat a COVID patient in early April, that doctor could be put in jail. So these things started happening early to try to prevent treatment of patients with COVID-19.FACT-O-RAMA! The 2nd largest hydroxychloroquine factory in the world burned down on Dec. 20, 2020.
McCullough on oral-nasal virucidal therapy:
So, if we use diluted betadine and so if you take a betadine over the counter, it’s a brown bottle. We use it to sterilize wounds in the E.R. Buy it at any pharmacy and take two teaspoons and 6oz of water. Take a nasal spray or a syringe bulb and spray it up your nose, snort it back to the point and back your throat and spit it out. I’m sorry, that’s gross for your audience, but you got to get it up there and back, that adequately decontaminates the nose. Then gargle with the rest of it. Spit it out, finish up with some scope or listerine. Doing that after you return from a day out with contact with people, especially close contact in close rooms. I’m talking public restrooms, small conference rooms. You have to be in contact with someone for about three hours.
McCullough on bleach:
They use sodium hypochlorite. That’s actually diluted bleach. Turns out it just takes a few drops of bleach in some household water. That’s for the mouth. We typically don’t use it in the nose, around the eyes. But remember when President Trump mentioned bleach, and everybody had a big horse laugh on that? It turns out he just couldn’t articulate. Someone was giving him the ADA recommendations for antiviral therapy for the mouth.
McCullough on vaccine efficacy drop-off:
Pfizer starts out at 92% vaccine efficacy, and it drops off to 23% after six months. Moderna starts out at 96% and it drops down to 69%. And now we have 22 studies showing that the vaccine efficacy basically markedly diminishes after six months. That’s the reason why all the authorities have agreed, we have to give boosters at six months, and the groups that do the worst — and this has been published — are those who are immunocompromised. So the immunocompromised people worry about them the most. But the bottom line is they get the least benefit of the vaccines.
McCullough on lockdowns:
The only thing we needed to do was just keep sick people at home. They were the only people who needed a quarantine. And, well, people could go do what they were going to do. Somebody can’t walk into a workplace with no symptoms and give the virus to somebody else. It doesn’t happen.Rogan: Why is there this resistance to the idea that people have natural immunity?
All roads lead to the vaccine. Why is there no single Harvard protocol or Mayo Clinic protocol to treat COVID-19 to prevent hospitalization and death? Why? We’re two years into it. You mean Harvard won’t treat a single patient at home to prevent a hospitalization? I said at the very beginning, I said there’s two bad outcomes: there’s hospitalization and death. That’s it. If you could get through this at home and not end up in the hospital, the whole world could get through this. And, you know, not a single leader could articulate that goal of avoiding these hospitalizations. Not a single leader.
Rogan: What is the motivation for all roads to lead to the vaccine in this binary approach? That it’s only the vaccine that can help us?
Well, let’s be fair to the vaccines. And I think this is important to mention. I was under oath, testified in the U.S. Senate, and they asked, the very last question they asked our panel was, do you have any problems with the vaccines? Timeframe November 19, 2020. None of us said a word because all we had was press releases. Joe, we learned that the vaccines out of the clinical trials over a two-month period had 90% vaccine efficacy, 90%. Now, what that meant is, if you had a clinical trial and you had 18,000 people in each group, vaccine versus placebo, that when you looked at the number of cases, there would be 100 cases of COVID in the control group, placebo group, and ten cases in the vaccine group. That’s 90% vaccine efficacy, 100 versus ten. They’re just giving sample numbers. That looked terrific, but interestingly, wait a minute. 18,000 in each group. What’s the problem? That meant that less than 1% of people got COVID. Now, during that time frame, our labs were recording 5%, 15% covered positivity rates. How did the vaccine trials recruit people with a less than 1% chance of getting COVID? How did they find these people?
McCullough on mass-formation psychosis:
The doctors appear to be like many of our leaders. By the way, all the leaders of the major churches, every single one of them, the major religious branches, are under the spell. Every major global international leader is under the spell. We’re in what’s called a mass formation psychosis. This is very important. I give credit to Dr. Mattias Desmet in the University again in Belgium. And recently, Dr. Mark McDonald, psychiatrist from L.A. Mark McDonald’s got a new book out, The United States of Fear, describing how the mass psychosis developed. What your listeners need to know is, a mass psychosis is when there is a groupthink that develops that’s so strong, that it leads to something horrific. And the examples are these mass suicides that occur in these religious cults. The example is Nazi Germany. When people walk into gas chambers. And we get these horrific things in four elements here. It’s very important, Joe. First, there must be a period of prolonged isolation. Lockdowns. Number two, there must be a withdrawal, of things taken away from people that they used to enjoy. That’s happened. Number three, there must be constant, incessant, free floating anxiety — all this news cycle, all the deaths and the hospitalizations, more variant mutant strains, everything — people becoming scared over and over again. The last thing, number four, the capper, is there must be a single solution offered by an entity in authority, and in this case, it’s clear. Worldwide. The solution was vaccination. Everybody must take the vaccination.
McCullough on ivermectin:
Absolutely. Ivermectin now is first line in Japan. It’s attributed to crushing the curves in Mexico. In Peru, absolutely, crushed the curves in India. We’ve been in close communication with them. Ivermectin is an interesting drug, and I know you’ve reviewed it in-depth on this show, so I’ll leave it to experts like Dr. Kory and others there. But I use it every day in my practice .I have no problems with ivermectin. It is safe and effective.
McCullough on ivermectin vs. hydroxychloroquine:
[There was] a Nobel Prize awarded in 2015 for ivermectin. But hydroxychloroquine, I think worldwide, is still the leading drug used to treat COVID-19, just because of its availability, it’s known dosing, But the interesting thing between hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin is, ivermectin has a range, inpatient and outpatient, and has a bigger effect size, in general. Both of them are still lacking the 20,000 to 40,000-patient clinical trial as a singular drug. Ivermectin has a range of effect sizes that are gratifying inpatient and outpatient, diminishing efficacy later. Hydroxychloroquine has really no support on the inpatient side outside the big Henry Ford study. So, hydroxy is largely an outpatient drug. The advantages of hydroxychloroquine are stable dosing, 200 milligrams twice a day. We either go 5, 10, or 30 days. We even have protocols where it’s been done that way.
McCullough mentions a study by Henry Ford Health Systems, located in the Detroit metro area, conducted in mid-2020 on the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine. The study showed hydroxychloroquine significantly cut the death rate of patients with the China flu.
The lefty press was quick to denounce or ignore it.
How politicized/fraudulent has the press become? @BerkeleyJr wrote this on Hydroxy citing the 3 negative studies, yet just forgot to mention the Henry Ford study, Yale epidem head, India, etc. I don’t care about hydroxy, but I do care about real journalism https://t.co/22bkSkCsak
— David L. Bahnsen (@DavidBahnsen) July 28, 2020
WAS COVID PLANNED?
Rogan: So you believe this is a premeditated thing that they were doing? So they realized that in order to get people enthusiastic about taking this vaccine, the best way to do that was to not have a protocol for treatment.
It’s not just my idea now. It’s completely laid out by the book by Dr. Pam Popper, the book recently published by Peter Breggin, COVID-19 and The Global Predators: We Are the Prey. I wrote one of the introductions. Dr. Leefleet and Dr. Vladimir Lesenko wrote the other introductions. These books are basically nonfiction. They have 1,000 citations in the Breggin book, showing how it was coordinated and planned. Now Bobby Kennedy has his book out, The Real Anthony Fauci. I’m the most mentioned physician in that book. I can tell you that if you want to find the evidence that Moderna was working on the vaccine before the virus ever emanated out of the lab, if you wanted to find the collusions and the operations between the Gates Foundation and Gavby and Sepi and Pfizer and Moderna and the vaccine manufacturers and the Wuhan lab and the National Institutes of Health and Ralph Barrack and University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and how all this was organized, if you want to see the Johns Hopkins planning seminar called the SPARS Pandemic in 2017, where they had a symposium, people showed up. They wrote up their symposium findings. They published this. It says it’s going to be a coronavirus. It’s going to be related to MERS and SARS. It’s going to come over here to the United States. It’s going to shut down cities and frighten people. There’s going to be confusion regarding the drug hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin. And we’re going to utilize all that in order to railroad the population into mass vaccination. It’s laid out in the Johns Hopkins sparse pandemic training seminar. The only thing they got wrong was the year; they said it was going to be 2025. Instead, it landed a few years early.
The left is quick to denounce Rogan every chance they get. YouTube deleted the video of Rogan speaking with McCullough. The left accused him of taking a horse dewormer to beat the bat flu. Why does the left fear him? He is crushing everyone, including Tucker Carlson, in the ratings.
Kevin Downey, Jr. Is a comedian and columnist. When he isn’t writing or performing on stage he is collecting surf records and perhaps practicing his mixologist skills at his tiki bar. His apartment, the Atomic Bunker, looks like it was furnished from George Jetson’s garage sale.
Podcast Transcript from Joe Rogan and Doctor Peter McCullough
If you don’t have time to watch the entire 2 hour and 45 minute video, below is the full podcast transcript of the interview with Joe Rogan and Peter McCullough if you prefer to read instead.
My cmnt: I’ve NOT included the FULL transcript below. Click the link above to go to the website with the full transcript.
|Joe Rogan||Well, sir, thanks very much. I really appreciate it. I’ve seen a lot of your testimonies before they were actually taken down. I’ve seen some of the videos that were yours that were taken down off of YouTube. And then I found that very odd that a doctor talking about a medical disease would have videos taken down.|
|Joe Rogan||An actual expert would be either testifying or discussing treatments and talking about a disease and have those videos taken down off of YouTube. Well, first of all, if you would please just state your credentials and tell everybody what you do.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||I’m Dr. Peter McCallough. I’m an internist and cardiologist.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||I’m also trained in epidemiology. I’m an academic practice in Dallas, Texas. So I see patients about half the time I saw patients yesterday, drove down today to see you here in the studio and the rest of my time I spend as an author, an editor. I’m an editor of a major Journal in cardiovascular medicine, the former editor of an international Journal, the President of a major medical society right now, currently about five years into that position, and I frequently publish in my field, I study the interface between heart and kidney disease. I’m the most published person in my field in history.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||I have over 650 publications in the National Library of Medicine. I imagine that’s probably ahead of anybody you’ve had on the show. You mentioned Paul Merrick. I’m just ahead of Palmer and Peter Cory. You mentioned him in critical care.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||I’m just ahead of Paul, a lot younger than he is. And when COVID hit, I really dropped everything to put all of my academic efforts on this because I saw it as an all hands on deck situation.|
|Joe Rogan||Now, when did things start to seem strange to you? In terms of the way the information was allowed to be distributed in terms of the way people were treating patients and not just that, but the information on how to treat patients was distributed.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||I didn’t see this coming. To tell you the truth, I was pretty happy in life. Medicine was moving along for me and had a very highly ranked position at a major academic medical center and traveled frequently and did all the things we normally do in academic medicine, meeting interchanging, challenging, being skeptical with one another. That is the lifeblood of academic medicine. And things are going great. In March, this hit, we immediately took efforts.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||We thought it was going to hit Dallas. We started looking at things, how to configure our workforce. I went and got a grant, got a large grant to study a prevention approach to protect our workers at our health care facility. And I work with the FDA over a weekend to get an investigation drug application awarded in my name in order to test a prophylactic approach. And things were going great in March.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||And I can tell you it wasn’t but a few weeks in April on these task force calls. I was on routine health system calls once a week, and I was on one with the National Institutes of Health, and I asked a question. I said, when are we going to start to treat the problem? People are getting sick out there. They’re starting to be hospitalized. Some are dying.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||When are we going to start to treat patients? It’s too late for the hospital. It’s too late to treat people. It’s obvious they’re dying in the hospital.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||We must start early and you could basically hear a pin drop on these calls. No one had an idea about treating Covid-19 at home.|
|Joe Rogan||Was there no thought about it? Was there no discussion or was it just not a point of focus? What was the problem there?|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||I think it was a grip of fear. Doctors for the first time in their lives felt like they could get the disease themselves if they actually saw and examined these patients. All the discussion was on personal protective equipment, hand sanitizer, negative air flow rooms. It was all about protecting the healthcare workers. There wasn’t any focus on sick patients.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||And after the weeks went by, I became incredibly frustrated. I started communicating with our Italian colleagues. I said, What’s going on? You guys are getting blasted in Milan. Is there anything we can do to treat patients at home and stop these hospitalizations?|
|Joe Rogan||And were you alone with this concern? Were there other doctors that were joining you with this and were there treatment protocols that had been put into place that were being tested?|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||There were no treatment protocols that emerged. We started looking at work done by Didir Realt in Marseille, France, by Vladimir Zelenko in Monroe, New York, and started communicating very early on with the Italians. And I had great relationships with the Italians in Milan.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||And what we had decided is we had decided on some principles early on their first collaboration, and my contribution was really to get people together, get the ideas together and publish. And I had the publication strength that other people didn’t. I got the first organized ideas together. In April, May, June, we submitted our paper July 1 to the American Journal of Medicine, which is one of the highly ranked journals in medicine. And it was published in August. This is the first publication teaching doctors how to treat COVID 19 with a multi drug regimen. And the groundwells were this. We knew it was insufficient time for large randomized trials. Those take two to four years. I lead large randomized trials.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||I published in the New England Journal Madison. I know what this is about. I’m on steering committees. We don’t have two to four years. This is a mass casualty situation.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||We use the precautionary principle, meaning that this is a mass casualty event. We can’t wait. We’re looking for drugs with a signal of benefit and acceptable safety. We knew very early on that this viral infection had three components. It was viral replication, cytokine, storm or inflammation and then thrombosis.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||So we know a single drug wasn’t going to handle the problem. No way. It was going to be a multi drug regiment, just like with HIV, just like with hepatitis C. No difference in multi drugs. So precautionary principle we use signals of benefit acceptable safety drugs in the combination test, retest and go. And so at the time we submitted our paper.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||Joe, there was about 4,000 papers in the peer review literature on Covid 19. I started to check that there was 55,000 papers in the peer review literature on Covid 19 and about 4,000 that could have related to certain drugs, but not a single one put the concepts together and how to treat patients.|
|Joe Rogan||So this was the first one and it was published in August. August of 2020.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||The American Journal of Medicine The title of the paper was the Pathophysiological Basis and Rationale for Early Outpatient Treatment of COVID-19. That quickly after August spawned the Association of American Physician and Surgeon’s Home Treatment Guide. Interesting organization is independent doctors. They accept no money from pharmaceutical agencies. They’ve been around since 1943.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||They had early on sued the federal government to release the stockpile of hydroxyquirquin. US had the right idea. As other countries they stockpiled hydroxychorquin. Then there was the problem of it wasn’t being released from the stockpile. And so during my development work early in 2020, I got a call from the White House.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||Peter Navarro called me. So listen, McCullough, can you help me get hydroxychloroquine released? Rick Bright and others in the FDA seemed to be colluding to block hydroxychloroquine coming out of the stockpile in Marseille, France did. I was working with hydroxychloroquine and it was over the country. In France.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||They made a prescription and they started making it hard for him to use. So these things started happening early to try to prevent treatment of patients with Covid.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||They made a prescription and they started making it hard for him to use. And then simultaneously in Australia, they had taken hydroxychloroquine and they had put it up in Queensland as basically an untouchable drug. If a doctor attempted to use hydroxychloroquine to treat a Covid patient in early April, that doctor could be put in jail. So these things started happening early to try to prevent treatment of patients with Covid-19.|
|Joe Rogan||Why do you think that’s the case? And why do you think that hydroxychloroquine would have been effective?|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||2006 forward. There were studies with hydroxychloroquine that demonstrated that it reduced replication of Sars-CoV1, the first version of the SARS virus.|
|Joe Rogan||Yes, we talked about that the other day. Wasn’t it just chloroquine? Was it chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine?|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||Originally there was chloroquine, hydroxychloroquine and mefloquine. So there’s antimalarials. They’re similar in terms of their biochemical property, but they have three mechanism action. They increase the lysosomalph. So when the particles taken into the cell, it doesn’t travel so well to the nucleus.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||Hydroxychloroquine one, bring in zinc. It’s a zinc Iona. Four zinc goes in and actually antagonizes the RNA dependent polymerase, which is needed for the virus to replicate. And then hydroxychloroquine is a well known and established anti-inflammatory we use it in lupus. We use it in rheumatoid arthritis, and it’s obviously an intracellular anti-infective. We use it for the prevention of malaria.|
|Joe Rogan||Was the problem, that there was a lot of problems with Donald Trump being in office, that when he would approve of something or when he would talk about something, people would attack that thing. And hydroxychloroquine became something that he talked of as a cure and talked about as a treatment for COVID. And then it became politicized and then support for hydroxychloroquine became support for Trump.|
|Joe Rogan||Would you think that that was accurate?|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||I’d have to look at the timeline. Boy, it was quick because the backlash against hydroxychloroquine was so strong in Brazil and Australia.|
|Joe Rogan||Why do you think that is, though?|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||The question is, did it happen before, after Trump said anything, it happened very quickly through the course of the year was extraordinary. Do you know the second largest producer of hydroxychloroquine was a plant was mysteriously burned down outside of Taipei? It was extraordinary what was going on. Doctors from Africa were telling us that there were some type of mercenary people rating the pharmacies at night and burning the hydroxychloroquine.|
|Joe Rogan||Now this is before the emergency use exemption or the emergency use authorization for the vaccines. The emergency use authorization. In order to have that you cannot have effective treatments.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||We have to be careful. The emergency use authorization is a new mechanism or a previously unused mechanism for regulatory pathways of drugs.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||And my interpretation of it and everybody’s interpretation is fair game, since it’s pretty loosely written quite honestly, depends on indication. So a vaccine would be indicated for the prevention of Covid-19 illness, hydroxychoroquine or Bamlanivimab or any of these other drugs we approved for the treatment of two separate indications. The EU should not be viewed in my view as competitive. In fact, it can’t because remember, Bamlanivimab, the Lily product as well as Remdesivir, the Giliad product. They preceded the vaccines and they didn’t preempt the vaccines coming out of the market.|
|Joe Rogan||But remdesivir had problems of its own.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||Correct with kidney failure. Remdesivir was basically a repurposed, failed Ebola drug and it does have intellectual property ties through Gilead back to the Chinese. So the Chinese originally were collaborating with us very tightly. I have tons of emails from the Chinese.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||They were trying to alert us. What’s going on with Covid-19. Remdesivir came up. It’s a polymerase inhibitor. As a general, I told you, hydroxychloroquine has three mechanisms of action.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||You’ve reviewed previously Ivermectin, which also has three separate mechanisms of action. Remdesivir is a one horse show. It’s a single mechanism action. It inhibits the polymerase and it unfortunately, as the data have borne out, it’s given far too late in the illness. Right.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||So the polymerase is active early in viral replication. So if you gave it on day one, it may actually do something, but if you give it on day 14. By the time someone comes in the hospital, the Iris is done replicated at that point in time and then all I can do is offer toxicity. And you’re right, it’s a five day infusion of Remdesivir. Early on, we heard about the hepatic toxicity.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||In my experience, I could never get a patient through five days of therapy because the liver function test, the ASD and alt would skyrocket. Now it’s become clear it’s been associated with acute kidney injury and the kidney injury is not tolerated in Covid 19 because any retention of fluid makes the oxygen saturation and lungs far worse.|
|Joe Rogan||So why do you think there was this demonization of hydroxychloroquine? And do you have a theory as to why they would try to restrict the distribution of it or why they would if someone wanted to burn down the factories that produce it, why they would do that?|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||It was clear that Hydroxychloroquine one was the most promising drug that we had for Covid 19. In my experience, I could never get a patient through five days of therapy because the liver function test, the ASD and alt would skyrocket. Now it’s become clear it’s been associated with acute kidney injury and the kidney injury is not tolerated in Covid-19 because any retention of fluid makes the oxygen saturation and lungs far worse.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||By the way, we tested retanivar HIV drugs, they quickly fell to the side. Other drugs were tested, but Hydroxy came forward as the lead agent and currently we’re up to 300 completed studies with Hydroxychloroquine and 32 early treatment studies, and it does have an effect size or an efficacy early in treatment of about 64% globally across the studies and its toxicity profile is well understood. Hydroxychloroquine, like Ivermectin and the other drugs, are already FDA approved. The FDA tells doctors to use drugs off label it’s in their guidance to us, and actually they have an FDA has a piece to patients that was published in 2018 saying, Why does your doctor used off label drugs? And it says when the doctors are fulfilling an unmet need, ie., Covid-19.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||There’s no new drugs from 19. So we use these drugs. What’s called clinically indicated, medically necessary, appropriate off label use of drugs.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||Hydroxy was the first one up. A giant mistake was to actually place an emergency use authorization on Hydroxychloroquine and the original that was placed on Hydroxy, which didn’t need one because it’s already on the market, right? It was placed for inpatient use. And then the interpretation was that it was a Hydroxychloroquine and was restricted to inpatient use. So once it became restricted at inpatient use, then there were messages saying, Listen, don’t use it unless somebody is an inpatient.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||Then when we found out the Hydroxychloroquine, like Ivermectin, works best early and has less of an effect late like all the other drugs because people are too far gone. Once those trials were completed, there’s five randomized trials of inpatients with hydroxychloroquine as they’re about to go on the ventilator. And those five trials are neutral. They don’t show harm, they don’t show benefit, they’re neutral. One of them was the NIH trial.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||There’s only two placebo controlled trials by the way. So we’ve based the entire house on hydroxy on two placebo controlled small inpatient trials that didn’t have sufficient power to see an effect if indeed, it was there. Having said that they were flat on the outcomes of mortality and progression in the hospital. And so based on that, in June of 2020, the FDA came out across the board and said, based on this, do not use Hydroxychloroquine to treat Covid-19, period, full stop. They never reviewed the data a second time or a third time.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||And I can tell you, as a doctor, the FDA, the CDC and the NIH, our public service agencies. To me and you, we don’t work for them. They don’t issue us rulings. They work for us. And I’m telling you, as a leader in academic medicine, my expectation was monthly reviews from those three entities and the White House task force.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||Matter of fact, the White House task force can do it. I needed a monthly report of what drugs are working and what drugs weren’t. We didn’t see any of that.|
|Joe Rogan||Why do you think that is?|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||I talked to Scott Atlas. I presented with him a couple of weeks ago, and I had dinner with Scott. He was on the inside. He worked side by side with these people for months. I said, Scott, what is going on? Scott goes, I did what Peter McCullough would do.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||I showed up every day with the data. I analyzed things. I had the updates on what’s going on with the pandemic. Scott was focused on mass contagion control in schools, but he’s an academic.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||He’s at Stanford Hoover Institute. I said, what about the other people on the task force? What about the head of the NIAD? What about the CDC director? He goes, they showed up with nothing.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||I said, You’ve got to be kidding me. They’re not analyzing any data? He goes, “Have you ever seen them come on TV and analyze any studies?” I said, no. He thinks that this is a crisis of academic incompetence.|
|Joe Rogan||Just incompetence, not some sort of a conspiracy to demonize Hydroxychloroquine for profit, for some other means, to promote some other treatment or drug.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||It wasn’t me but someone in the crowd. This was a symposium that was held by Pam Popper.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||Dr. Popper’s got a wonderful book out on Covid 19. And so does Scott Atlas. His was about the White House. And someone in the audience asked Scott. So listen, do they have another intention?|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||Were they directly trying to squash hydroxychoric at the time? He said, no, he said they had good intentions for the nation. He said, they’re just incompetent.|
|Joe Rogan||So is it possible that the demonization of hydroxychloroquine was because Donald Trump supported it? Because I know the way I had been hearing about it was hearing about it through him.|
|Joe Rogan||He talked about it. It’s basically a miracle. Do you remember all that stuff he was saying? It was a miracle.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||As I recall, that was late March. I think when it was honestly made illegal in Australia. It was early April. I went on Tucker Carlson, we had the same type of discussion. Tucker says, “How did the Australians know to make it illegal so early in April?” He goes that’s before all the research was done.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||Remember, Henry Ford came out with a 3,000 patient study and actually used in the hospital. It wasn’t randomized, but they got consent. It was very carefully done. I was a program director at Henry Ford in the past. I know that institution really well.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||High quality, top shelf. I was communicating with them. They said, Listen, it works. It is clear it works. This is an unconfounded study.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||And that was one of the studies that, in fact, we relied upon in order to put hydroxychloroquine in sequence multi-drug therapy. That was before the data with Ivermectin came in. So, Ivermectin came in later. And so our update. When we published our update in December of 2020, we brought in Ivermectin.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||The Japanese had told us about Favipiravir in the Russians head. A lot of people don’t know this. There is an oral antiviral approved and used in Japan and Russia and four States in India called Favipiravir. That is an oral polymerase inhibitor, so it’s like an oral Remdesivir. It’s very similar to the new drug Molnupiravir.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||This is an oral polymerase inhibitor. So the antivirals we actually buy. Our recommendations now had three antivirals that we could recommend worldwide for that layer of treatment. Now, antivirals alone are not sufficient, and they are not necessary to treat COVID-19. It’s very interesting for people to say this.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||People wanted to put up hydroxychloroquine, wind up on a pedestal and say, Listen, if we can knock down hydroxychlorquine, there will be no treatment for Covid 19 and we can promote some other agenda or if we can knock down Ivermectin and Dr. Chetty from South Africa and Dr. Brentios from South America, given the politicization of both drugs, because Ivermectin in the next wave became the next target of politizatiaon, if you will, if it’s politics. But I have to tell you, it’s so worldwide. I hate that word politician.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||I think it’s some other process. But the point is they demonstrated that the syndrome as an outpatient can be treated without those drugs. They use a different combination of drugs in the sequence. The Chatty method is called the time method. In a sense, you let the viral, you rate the virus, make its run on replication and then pick it up with Montelukast cyproheptadine, inhaled steroids, oral steroids, and then anticoagulants. They treat the back end of the syndrome.|
|Joe Rogan||Now again, though, why do you think hydroxychloroquine was demonized? Why do you think that it was, especially so early on in Australia? It can’t be universal incompetence across the board. So one of the things that’s interesting about Ivermectin is it’s not demonized worldwide. It’s distributed widely in other countries and it’s shown some effectiveness.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||Absolutely. Ivermectin now is first line in Japan. It’s attributed to crushing the curves in Mexico.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||In Peru absolutely crushed the curves in India. We’ve been in close communication with them. Ivermectin is an interesting drug and I know you’ve reviewed it in depth on this show, so I’ll leave it to experts like Dr. Kory and others there, but I use it every day in my practice I have no problems with Ivermectin. It is safe and effective.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||It’s been a Nobel Prize awarded in 2015 for Ivermectin. But hydroxychloroquine, I think worldwide is still the leading drug used to treat Covid at 19. Just because of its availability, it’s known dosing about the interesting thing between Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin is Ivermectin has a range inpatient and outpatient and has a bigger effect size. In general. Both of them have are still lacking the 20,000 to 40,000 patient clinical trial as a singular drug.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||And I honestly don’t think we’ll ever get there. By the way, we’re in the multi drug space, so we’re never going to go back to single drugs. We’re in the multi drug environment. So there are no large multi drug trials even planned at this point in time. So we’re left with where we are signals to benefit acceptable safety.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||But to finish the thought, Ivermectin has a range of effect sizes that are gratifying inpatient and outpatient diminishing efficacy later. Hydroxychloroquine has really no support on the inpatient side outside the big Henry Ford study. So Hydroxy is largely an outpatient drug. The advantages of hydroxychloroquine are stable dosing, 200 milligrams twice a day. We either go 5, 10, or 30 days. We even have protocols where it’s been done that way.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||Ivermectin the dosing is 200, 400 or 600 micrograms per kilogram, and the dose intervals still are yet to be standardized or worked out. So it’s interesting. So you see an entire range of doses of Ivermectin, even clinically today.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||I don’t know. Do I go five days? Do I do ten days? Do I do every other day? I don’t know.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||We use the drugs and I’m comfortable with that. I can live with ambiguity in the setting of a crisis. The point is, these are very safe and effective drugs. They’re useful drugs. I saw a trend.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||You’ve asked me three times, so I’m going to answer it. I saw a trend starting in April, May and June where it became clear that anything we were doing to try to help patients with early treatment was receiving a chill and the chill was coming through academic institutions through the medical literature. I think the capper was in June when there was a fraudulent paper published in Lancet on Hydroxychloroquine between Harvard and a company called Surgisphere. And this never happens. Lancet is like the New England Journal Medicine of the World.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||I’m the editor of a major Journal. I run a Journal. I know what it takes. There are editors, associate Editors, reviewers. There is pinpoint accuracy.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||We check references we check plagiarism. Believe me, it’s a tight world out there. They basically published a fraudulent paper on hydroxychloroquine in Lancet in 2020 around June, and they let it hang up there for two weeks stating that hydroxychloroquine was associated with harm when used in patients with COVID-19.|
|Joe Rogan||Who made this study?|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||It was between one investigator who was at Harvard, and it was by a company called Surgisphere that nobody knew what this company was.It turned out to be a company that literally just dissolved or went away without anybody understanding.|
|Joe Rogan||So it’s a company that was created specifically to do this.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||Don’t know. Don’t know. All I can tell you is I looked at the data, Joe, and they had tens of thousands of people they claimed were hospitalized with covid 19, fairly early in the pandemic. The average age of these people hospitalized was in the low 40s. I looked at this paper in 2 seconds. This doesn’t make sense. We were hospitalizing people in their 80s, not in their 40s. And so to me, it didn’t look right. And then people started writing Lancet saying, listen, it doesn’t look real.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||And they started receiving tons of emails. And then Lancet basically retracted it and said, we retracted it. No apologies, no explanation. I interpret that. And that occurred right before the FDA said, don’t use hydroxychoroquine. It almost looked like it was a step to basically try to bury hydroxychoroquine as a therapy.|
|Joe Rogan||But why? This is what I still understand. What do you think is the motivation and why was it so worldwide?|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||As a doctor, all I can tell you is the medical literature, as we are seeing it come about. There was, once the discovery that the spike protein on the virus, the discovery in the medical literature. Now that discovery we learned actually occurred years before. This was amenable to neutralization with vaccine induced antibodies. Once that became abundantly clear in the literature, there appeared to be almost a lockstep developed where people said that’s it. That’s the solution. We’re going to vaccinate our way out of this problem.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||We don’t even need to worry about how to treat the problem. We don’t need to hear about drugs to treat the problem. And the enthusiasm and the hubris for vaccination spread across academic medical centers all over the country.|
|Joe Rogan||But what about the people that were currently sick and they were still waiting for the roll out of the vaccine. So if you’re talking about August, the vaccine wasn’t rolling out for another four months. And that’s just for elderly people.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||I published an op Ed in August of 2020 in the Hill, a Republican Journal for Washington people and others in those circles. And the title of the oped was The Great Gamble of the Covid 19 Vaccine Development Program. And what I saw is I saw a total shift on everything for the vaccines. Do you know major clinical trials of hydroxychloroquine were dropped, Ivermectin things were dropped.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||We had programs for Favipiravir, the Canadians had a big thrust for Favipiravir dropped. I was the principal investigator overall for the Ramatraban program. That was a Japanese product. It was an anti coagulant antihistamine look very promising. We had great preliminary data.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||We had a bear that was going to give us all the doses we needed to treat America. I was on calls between the NIH and the FDA. Back and forth, back and forth. I couldn’t get any traction in the summer of 2020. It was obvious.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||In fact, I remember one of the operation Warp speed officers telling me, listen, sorry. We have everything organized for the current program. I was also the assistant. I was kind of second in charge of the Modulon program, which was a cellular based vaccine that was a vaccine similar to the BCG vaccine, which is given for tuberculosis. We had noticed that regions that were vaccinating for tuberculosis like Haiti and countries in Central Africa, very little Covid.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||And so we had the idea. We got a Dutch manufacturer to actually make this cellular based vaccine. We’re going to vaccinate healthcare workers. Same thing. Endless proposals between NIH and FDA got nowhere because it looked like it was already pre decided that the current set of genetic vaccines were going to move forward.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||There wasn’t going to be any discussion on early treatment. I thought it was a gamble. I was faced with more and more of my patients getting sick with Covid-19 and what I told people all over. I said, listen, I can’t let the virus slaughter my patients. I’m not going to do it.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||I said, there’s got to be something I could do. Early on. I used hydroxychoroquine. Other drugs in combination, Pierre Kory, I give him great credit.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||His first contribution is actually steroids in the use of COVID-19. So we started using steroids. Once it was shown to us, we added steroids. The data started coming out anticoagulants, and that’s how I put it together. I tell you, Joe, every single one of my high risk patients I’ve always treated to prevent hospitalization and death.|
|Dr. Peter McCullough||Of the 800,000 deaths that we are right now, I can tell you to a one they’ve received either no or inadequate early treatment. Go look in a table of baseline characteristics of hospitalized patients with COVID-19 and look at what they received before they came to the hospital. In fact, there’s one paper by IP and colleagues. Last name is spelled I-P.|